Inaugual Zittrain Forum engages audience with timely political debate
By Erin Rhodes
On October 14, the inaugural Zittrain Forum on Law & Public Policy proved that political debates can be civilized. Over 250 guests filled the Grand Ballroom of the Omni William Penn Hotel to listen to friendly yet compelling discussion between national political commentators Peter Beinart and Jonah Goldberg.
The program entitled “A Debate on Hot Topics Facing Voters in the Upcoming 2008 Presidential Election” pitted Beinart, a liberal, against Goldberg, a conservative. However, sitting comfortably in throw-back chairs with a coffee table between them, there was a noticeable lack of rancor between the two. In fact, Beinart and Goldberg consider each other friends and debate frequently, hosting a liberal versus conservative “webtv” show on the internet.
Beinart, editor-at-large of The New Republic, is a Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. He also writes a monthly column for The Washington Post and regularly appears on television news shows.
Goldberg is a contributing editor to National Review and was the founding editor of National Review Online. He is a weekly columnist for the Los Angeles Times and also appears regularly on television news shows.
For Ruth Zittrain, who co-founded the Zittrain Forums with her late husband Lester Zittrain, the inaugural Forum was a family affair. Lester and Ruth’s children, Laurie Eisenberg and Jonathan Zittrain, were on hand to participate in the October event. Laurie, a professor of Middle Eastern studies at Carnegie Mellon University, provided introductory remarks which included fond remembrance of her father’s love of education and a charming introduction of her brother Jonathan, in which Laurie joked that while her brother may be an accomplished professor of Internet Law at Harvard, he was also once the owner of an impressive collection of match-box cars.
“I am still smiling with delight that the first Zittrain Forum came across so well,” said Ruth Zittrain. “Les wanted to endow the Forums with good thinking, good follow-through, and good people who knew how to keep an audience fully awake and really enthralled with the debating before them. This group certainly fit the bill for the First Zittrain Forum!”
Acting as moderator, Jonathan Zittrain kicked-off the debate by asking those in the audience who felt more aligned with the “left” to hum and then asked those on the “right” to do the same. The harmless cacophony made for a lighthearted start to the afternoon’s program.
Jonathan began the debate by asking the panelists to define “right” and “left.” In response, Goldberg, a conservative, referred to what he believes are the two pillars of conservatism: the traditional values pillar, consisting of social issues such as family values, and the free enterprise pillar, consisting of free markets, free trade, and entrepreneurialism. Goldberg stated that in order to be a conservative, one must agree with at least some of each pillar’s principles.
On the other end of the table, Beinart argued that liberalism calls for different types of equality: political equality, racial equality, women’s equality, and economic equality, all of which, Beinart asserted, lead to equality of opportunity.
“I thought both Jonah and Peter gave thoughtful answers to the opening question of what makes them identify as “left” or “right.” I think both sounded agreeable a lot of the time—which is funny, since much of what they said contradicted each other,” said moderator Jonathan Zittrain.
On the subject of whether it is better to have a judge who decides cases based on compassion and fairness or one that is a strict constructionist of the law, Goldberg referenced a recent poll in which voters were asked if they would prefer a Supreme Court Justice who interprets the law or one who would act with compassion and fairness. Goldberg revealed that of those who preferred compassion and fairness, 79 percent planned to vote for Obama in the election. Of those who preferred a judge to act as an arbiter of the law, 79 percent intended to vote for McCain.
Goldberg asserted that while he is by no means a legal expert, his “interpretation of judging is that judges are supposed to interpret the law, whether or not they like the law or would have voted for the law if they were in the legislature.”
Beinart stressed the importance of judges that “stand against the tyranny of the majority,” citing Justice Hugo Black as an example of someone “transcending his background,” one which included one-time involvement in the KKK, in order to promote civil rights and liberties.
On the issue of Supreme Court appointments, Goldberg said there is “serious disagreement between the left and the right.”
After much discussion on political ideology, Zittrain asked Goldberg what everyone was waiting to hear: was he excited about a McCain presidency?
Goldberg, who answered most of Zittrain’s questions with a charming mixture of humor and substance, prefaced his answer by referring to his favorite New Yorker cartoon by Leo Cullum which shows two dogs in suits, sitting at a bar with the caption: “It’s not enough that we succeed. Cats must also fail.” Goldberg went on to explain that he feels much the same way about the election.
“I am very much against an Obama victory,” said Goldberg. “I really do believe the Republican Party made enormous mistakes over the last ten years. The mistakes I think they made are very different than the mistakes Peter thinks they made.”
While Goldberg admitted things looked grim for a McCain victory, he asserted that “the amazing thing isn’t that McCain is losing, it’s that he’s doing as well as he is.”
In response, Beinart stated that “McCain is a genuinely remarkable man,” noting that McCain is one of the few men of his generation to serve in the military.
Not willing to go too far with the McCain accolades, Beinart, in reference to the struggles of the lower and middle-class, added that “McCain just doesn’t care that much about the American economy.”
As it appeared Beinart and Goldberg could have talked until sundown, Zittrain started canvassing the audience for questions. One inquirer, addressing Goldberg, asked whether he thought the recent government intervention in Wall Street would undermine conservatism’s principle of free enterprise.
Goldberg admitted, “It’s going to be very hard for conservatives, and even fiscally-disciplined democrats, to argue against bail-outs for a very long time.”
Another audience question, which came from an undecided voter, asked what role character plays in choosing a President, and how the choice of Governor Sarah Palin as McCain’s running-mate could be justified.
Interestingly enough, both panelists avoided the Palin-aspect of the question altogether. Instead, Goldberg argued the importance of electing a President who has no problem saying “no,” adding that he liked the idea of having a curmudgeon, i.e. McCain, shouting out the White House window, “Hey kids, get off my lawn!”
Goldberg also argued that “McCain would be a very good check on a runaway Democratic Congress.”
On the issue of character, Beinart asserted that certain social mores are not appropriate standards for electing a President. He mentioned Bill Clinton’s infidelity as an example.
Zittrain wrapped up the debate by commenting on how “civil” the afternoon’s conversation had been compared to some of the shout-fests infiltrating cable news shows. In response, Goldberg enthusiastically asserted that “democracy is about disagreement, not agreement.” He argued that people should not put their partisan differences aside, because those differences are what make the U.S. a democracy.
Beinart agreed, stating that, in respect to the Iraq war, “A lot of mainstream Democrats were too polite when the Bush administration came up with these very very very dangerous ideas.”
Proving that not all political pundits are ideologues, Beinart said, “There’s not very much correlation between what kind of human being you are and what kind of political views you have.” Beinart, whose soft-spoken demeanor contrasted with that of the laid-back, often unpredictable Goldberg, concluded his answer with humor when he said that there are many very decent conservatives out there, but also liberals he wouldn’t trust to babysit his children.
When asked if he was surprised by either of the panelists’ answers, moderator Zittrain said, “Both expressed the need for a healthy society to have disagreements within it. I was intrigued by the idea that conflict makes us stronger rather than more fragmented, and I was pleased at their demonstration that people with deeply conflicting views could have a conversation that didn’t impugn each other’s motives, values, or patriotism.”
Preparations for the Zittrain Forum began in January when the foundation established a Zittrain Forum Subcommittee. The Subcommittee chose to have a debate-style format focusing on the Presidential election and, after considering various candidates, decided upon the pairing of Beinart and Goldberg.
Founded by Lester and Ruth Zittrain, the purpose of the Zittrain Forums is to bring in quality, relevant speakers in an effort to help the local community better understand the complex issues of public policy and law. Lester Zittrain passed away in 2003, leaving to the Allegheny County Bar Foundation a $150,000 bequest to maintain and administer the Zittrain Forums, the largest donation the foundation has received to date.
During his four-decade career, Lester Zittrain was attorney to such high-profile celebrities as Pistol Pete Maravich, Mean Joe Green, Terry Bradshaw, Myron Cope, Rocky Bleier, and many other Steelers from the great 1970s team.
Ruth Zittrain is a partner at Zittrain and Zittrain and is an active member of Pittsburgh’s legal community. She has served as an elected member of the ACBA Board of Governors. She is a Charter Fellow of the bar foundation and is an elected member of the Academy of Trial Lawyers of Allegheny County and a court-appointed Master of Arbitration in the Allegheny County Court of Common Pleas.
The planning of a second Zittrain Forum is in the works. If you have any comments or suggestions, please contact foundation Director Lorrie Albert at 412-402-6640 or lalbert@acba.org.